Jay Shetty & Olga Khazan ON How to Stop Being Socially Awkward

Have you ever felt profoundly stuck in who you are, believing that your frustration, disorganization, or shyness is just an immutable part of your nature?

In this on Purpose episode, Jay Shetty welcomes Olga Khazan, an award-winning writer for The Atlantic and the author of Me, But Better: The Science and Practice of Personality Change. Khazan explores the science behind our personalities and how we can change them. She hopes that listeners realize that whatever is currently wrong or not working in their lives, whether a lack of friends, career progression blocks due to public speaking anxiety, or general disorganization. You have the power to change your behaviors and traits to align with your goals, regardless of age or occupation.

The Myth of the Permanent Personality

Olga Khazan's life was good. She lived in a place with great weather, had strong relationships, and a good work-life balance. However, minor inconveniences (a bad haircut, traffic, etc.) could significantly affect her mood. She told Jay Shetty that they would accumulate and lead to a meltdown and an overall feeling of unhappiness.

These small negative events could ruin the journalist's day or even an entire week. She explained it was because of her naturally high level of neuroticism, a trait associated with depression and anxiety. Khazan soon realized that life is never perfect and frustrations are inevitable, and the only path to happiness is changing her response to those situations.

It was this realization that made her research personality change, and Khazan was surprised to find out that people can, indeed, change their core personality traits. This change, she told Jay Shetty, correlates with becoming healthier and happier. We are, in fact, able to change who we are by changing our behaviors, responses, and thought patterns. Eventually, these small changes lead to a personality shift, too.

Defining Personality

Personality is often misunderstood. Personality scientists define it as the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that come most naturally to you. Researchers like Nathan Hudson add that personality also serves as the way we pursue our goals.¹ For example, high agreeableness can help you attract people and make friends, while conscientiousness helps you achieve goals, get promotions, and stay organized.

Personality is measured primarily through the big five traits, often remembered by the acronym OCEAN:

1. Openness to experiences: Being open-minded and generally curious.
2. Conscientiousness: Being diligent, organized, and goal-oriented.
3. Extroversion: How much you enjoy being around people and how active you are.
4. Agreeableness: How warm and empathetic you are in relationships.
5. Neuroticism: Encompasses depression and anxiety, reflecting how negative or gloomy your inner weather is.

Olga Khazan warns Jay Shetty that everyone possesses these traits to varying degrees, as they exist on a spectrum.

Breaking Free from the Stuck Mindset

Khazan told Jay Shetty that many people believe their personality is fixed, partly because of the long-held scientific view that personality is permanent, often reinforced by the belief that if something is partly genetic, it must be a death sentence. The famous William James quote, suggesting that personality is set like plaster after the age of 30, also contributes to this narrative.²‍

In reality, personality is only about 40 to 60% inheritable; it's a combination of genetics, environment, and our own actions and decisions, Khazan explained. The more recent psychological literature shows that people change naturally over time, and they can also change rapidly by making concerted efforts. Studies even show that some people change more after the age of 30 than before, Khazan told Jay Shetty.³‍

Today, we also face pressure to be authentic, which sometimes stunts our growth. But nobody remains the same throughout their lives; inevitably, we change and shift over time. It's how we grow, which is, according to Khazan, the most authentic thing a human can do.

The Neurotic Spiral and the Double Arrow

Olga Khazan experienced high levels of neuroticism, which often made her become trapped in negative thought patterns that turned minor annoyances into full-blown bad days. Neuroticism, she explained to Jay Shetty, is characterized by the extent of your internal negativity.

To counter her negative mindset, the journalist found the double arrow concept very illustrative of her behavior. The double arrow depicts someone's tendency to inflict additional suffering on themselves following an initial unfortunate event. For instance, if you don’t accomplish as much work as you had hoped (the first arrow), you might then criticize yourself and worry about future implications (the second arrow).

Khazan discovered that having two sources of pain doesn’t earn you any extra points in life; instead, you can recognize the negative event and proceed with calm, free of self-criticism. She acknowledged to Jay Shetty that a lot of her neuroticism originated from self-blame, and this realization greatly enhanced her capacity for self-compassion.

Tools for Emotional Stability

Olga Khazan experienced a significant change after enrolling in a Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) class, which included daily silent meditation, mindful activities, and weekly presentations on simple Buddhist concepts. Even though she initially found meditation painfully boring and doubted its effectiveness, her depression score dropped considerably. Studies found that, in some cases, MBSR works just as well as the antidepressant Lexapro in some studies.⁴‍

Other key tools for reducing negativity and neuroticism include gratitude journaling and reverse worrying. Khazan explained that journaling helps break the cycle of seeing everything in a negative light; it wires you to notice the positive parts, even on difficult days. She told Jay Shetty that we are wired to notice bad stories (such as a bad commute) and to repeat them; yet, we rarely celebrate positive events.

Reverse worrying is a practice developed by psychologist Tracy Dennis Tiwari; this technique encourages anxious individuals not only to think about how things could go wrong, but also to consciously consider how things could go right. This prevents the anxiety from turning into constant, debilitating worry by acknowledging that some things will be fine.

You Need a Why

Conscientiousness is the personality trait of go-getters who pursue goals diligently, Khazan told Jay Shetty. For those who struggle with organization or motivation, building conscientiousness requires significant effort fueled by a strong "why". This "why" must be something that fuels you forever, not just for a week. It could be running toward a goal (like a dream career) or running away from a negative outcome (like a tedious job).

One powerful strategy is Episodic Future Thinking. Khazan described it to Jay Shetty as a practice of visualization: try picturing in vivid detail the outcome you're trying to generate or the outcome you're trying to avoid. Connecting tedious tasks to a larger vision (what you want or don't want to happen) helps maintain motivation through difficult periods.

Boosting Extraversion Through Exposure

For introverts or those who feel socially isolated, the goal is often to increase extraversion (the degree to which you enjoy being around people). Khazan told Jay Shetty that the most straightforward strategy is simply talking to people, even when you don't feel like it. She recommends signing up for regular group activities that you don't have to organize. This is a form of exposure therapy that enables you to build connections by seeing the same people regularly over an extended period.

The journalist suggests using the so-called free traits.⁵ It's a way of borrowing traits from other personality types without fully embracing them, but putting on an "invisibility cloak," as Khazan calls it. She told Jay Shetty that an introvert can put on an extroverted mask for an event when they need to shine in front of the audience. Although this is not who you are deep down, Olga Khazan believes it still counts as a personality change because it allows you to meet your important goals.

When Habits Become Identity

Olga Khazan explained to Jay Shetty that the relationship between habits and personality is complex; some psychologists believe that consistent routines eventually become habits, especially if you start incorporating them into your personality.⁶ For example, if you consistently exercise and identify as a runner, you deliberately incorporate that commitment into your core personality.

Khazan went through a similar experience herself - she was diffident and found public speaking situations extremely uncomfortable. She told Jay Shetty that she would have physiological anxiety responses. However, she forced herself to practice the habit of speaking in front of an audience, and, over time, it became a reflex. Now, she doesn't need any crutches before moderating an event; in her case, public speaking went from a learned habit to a genuine part of her personality.

Change for Self-Fulfillment, Not People-Pleasing

Olga Khazan emphasized that personality change starts from within - you must want to change for yourself, not for others. Only internal motivation can help you reach true change. If you do it for others, it won't last.

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The journalist told Jay Shetty that when a relationship requires a change (especially when dealing with people-pleasers), it's crucial to understand their fundamental needs. Why do they request certain behavior from your side, and what prompts them to act in certain ways? You can address the underlying needs and find common ground that both parties accept. Khazan insists this strategy helps set boundaries while maintaining empathy.

Personality Change and Mental Health

Olga Khazan told Jay Shetty that a growing area of focus in psychology is identifying the personality traits associated with mental health conditions. Conditions like depression, anxiety, and ADHD often have a clear personality component.

Depression and anxiety have both a neurotic foundation. While the journalist found MBSR and CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) to be as efficient as antidepressants, it's essential to consult with your healthcare provider to understand what is the most fitting treatment for your particular case.

Some experts view adult ADHD as a form of low conscientiousness, and therapists working with such adults often provide conscientiousness tools, such as structured Google calendars, apps like Todoist, and time management techniques. The aim is to create systems required for maintaining focus and organization.

There are new efforts to treat BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) by deliberately shifting personality traits, such as agreeableness.⁷ They employ strategies similar to those used for personality change, often through specific forms of therapy.

The journalist mentioned to Jay Shetty that the skills learned through therapeutic or mindful practices tend to be long-lasting. They remain available throughout the course of your life and provide a sustainable pathway to emotional stability and growth.

More From Jay Shetty

Listen to the entire On Purpose with Jay Shetty podcast episode “Olga Khazan: Do You Feel Socially Awkward? This Episode Will Change Your Life & INSTANTLY Make You Confident in ANY Social Interaction” now in the iTunes store or on Spotify. For more inspirational stories and messages like this, check out Jay’s website at jayshetty.me.

Disclaimer: This episode reflects Olga Khazan’s personal experiences and perspectives. It is not medical, psychological, or therapeutic advice. Any references to health, diet, or lifestyle practices are her individual choices and may not be suitable for everyone. Results and experiences vary. Always consult a qualified professional before making changes to your health, wellness, or personal care routines.

‍¹Hudson, Nathan W., William J. Chopik, and Daniel A. Briley. “Volitional Change in Adult Attachment: Can People Who Want to Become Less Anxious and Avoidant Move Closer towards Realizing Those Goals?” European Journal of Personality 34, no. 1 (January 2020): 93–114. https://doi.org/10.1002/per.2226.  

‍²James, William. The principles of psychology. CreateSpace, 2015. 

‍³Roberts BW, Mroczek D. Personality Trait Change in Adulthood. Curr Dir Psychol Sci. 2008 Feb 1;17(1):31-35. doi: 10.1111/j.1467-8721.2008.00543.x. PMID: 19756219; PMCID: PMC27Hoge EA, Bui E, Mete M, Dutton MA, Baker AW, Simon NM. Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction vs Escitalopram for the Treatment of Adults With Anxiety Disorders: A Randomized Clinical Trial. JAMA Psychiatry. 2023;80(1):13–21. doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2022.367943415. 

‍⁴Hoge EA, Bui E, Mete M, Dutton MA, Baker AW, Simon NM. Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction vs Escitalopram for the Treatment of Adults With Anxiety Disorders: A Randomized Clinical Trial. JAMA Psychiatry. 2023;80(1):13–21. doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2022.3679 

‍⁵Little, Brian R. “Personal Projects and Free Traits: Personality and Motivation Reconsidered.” Web log. Brian R. Little (blog), October 24, 2011. https://www.brianrlittle.com/articles/%EF%BF%BCpersonal-projects-and-free-traits/#:~:text=Free%20traits%20emerge%20when%20individuals,compromise%20emotional%20and%20physical%20health. 

‍⁶Verplanken B, Sui J. Habit and Identity: Behavioral, Cognitive, Affective, and Motivational Facets of an Integrated Self. Front Psychol. 2019 Jul 10;10:1504. doi: 10.3389/fpsyg.2019.01504. PMID: 31354563; PMCID: PMC6635880. 

‍⁷Chapman J, Jamil RT, Fleisher C, et al. Borderline Personality Disorder. [Updated 2024 Apr 20]. In: StatPearls [Internet]. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing; 2025 Jan-. Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430883/