Jay Shetty & Dr. Maya Shankar ON Finding Directions After a Change

Have you ever felt like the rug was pulled out from under you, leaving you wondering who you are without the things that once defined your life?

In this On Purpose episode, Jay Shetty discussed with Dr. Maya Shankar her new book, The Other Side of Change: Identity and Resilience in Transition. Dr. Maya Shankar is a world-renowned cognitive scientist, a former Juilliard-trained violinist, and the host of the podcast A Slight Change of Plans. She opened up about her personal struggles and how a series of changes shifted her mindset and approach to life.

The Two Types of Change

Jay Shetty identified two types of change: the one we choose for ourselves, such as starting a new habit, moving to a new city, or a pivot in our career, and the one that happens to us. He noted that, while people tend to enjoy the agency of a chosen change, they almost universally dread the moments when change is forced upon them.

Dr. Maya Shankar admitted that she studied change out of fear; although she has vast professional expertise in this area, she confessed to being bad at it and hating the unexpected shifts life throws her way. Dr. Shankar described herself as someone who loves to be in control and finds comfort in the belief that the world is fair and good actions lead to good outcomes. Yet experiencing unexpected change challenges her belief and causes her significant psychological discomfort.

The Psychological Weight of Uncertainty

Dr. Maya Shankar explained to Jay Shetty the cognitive science behind our fear of the unknown. She cited a study showing that humans are more stressed when they are told they have a 50% chance of receiving an electric shock than when they are told they have a 100% chance.¹ She added that the anticipatory anxiety and the uncertainty take a greater mental toll than the negative event itself.

Because humans like to know what to expect, they often struggle when a plan goes awry, Dr. Shankar explained. She admitted to Jay Shetty that she would also prefer the electric shock to the skin-crawling feeling of not knowing what comes next. Even though it may be possible to come to terms with the unpredictability of events outside of our control, it remains a challenging task for humans to reckon with the limits of our control.

Losing a Dream: From Juilliard to the Unknown

Dr. Maya Shankar opened up about the changes that altered her life course; as a teenager, she was an aspiring concert violinist studying at Juilliard under the renowned Itzhak Perlman. But a sudden, career-ending hand injury while playing the violin shattered her dreams and, at 15, doctors told her that she could no longer become the professional violinist she had dreamt of being.

This type of encounter with devastating change is particularly painful because it is out of our control. For Dr. Shankar, it wasn't her abilities that kept her from achieving her dream, but a physical limitation that she couldn't overcome, which filled her with grief and identity loss. She admitted to Jay Shetty that losing the violin felt like losing her value as a human being.

Dr. Shankar believes that change is terrifying because it threatens our self-identity. She had anchored much of her self-worth and confidence in being a violinist; as a child who had been bullied, she found a sense of social belonging in the violin because her peers at music school accepted her regardless of her skin color. When the violin was taken away, all those external sources of validation vanished with it.

Finding Your "Why"

If you want to build a secure sense of self, Dr. Maya Shankar suggests understanding why you do certain things rather than what you do. She explained to Jay Shetty that her love for the violin was rooted in a deep desire for emotional connection; understanding her "why" kept alive the part of herself that craved connection, even after she could no longer play the violin.

Dr. Maya Shankar told Jay Shetty that she found new ways to express her "why" through other channels, such as hosting her podcast and writing her book. These endeavors allowed her to deeply connect with others, which is exactly what her core desires are. While external roles, such as parent, executive, or athlete, can be taken away from you, your purpose remains the anchor that guides you through difficult transitions.

Dr. Shankar shared with Jay Shetty and the audience the story of a man named Scott, a highly accomplished Harvard-trained human rights lawyer who was suddenly incapacitated by severe long COVID. After learning about the "why" vs. "what", he shared with Dr. Shankar that he could find a new way to advocate for underrepresented people without a voice, beyond his previous career path. Understanding the real reason behind your actions can be a good motivator to pivot and adjust to the new circumstances, while continuing to follow your purpose.

The End of History Illusion

Dr. Maya Shankar told Jay Shetty that one of the reasons why we struggle to imagine a future after a major change is what scientists call "The End of History Illusion".² While we can easily see how much we have changed in the past, we falsely believe that our current self is the final product, and mistakenly assume that the person we are today is the person we will be for the rest of our lives.

This illusion makes it harder to embrace change because we evaluate our capacity to face future obstacles based on present resources and perspective. However, Dr. Shankar argued that change leaves its mark on us. She told Jay Shetty that significant life events accelerate our internal evolution and give us new values, skills, and ways of seeing the world.

Dr. Shankar emphasized that, when faced with change, you must understand that you won't be the same person once the transition is over. Remember that you would have gained knowledge that you aren't even considering now, and it will also reshape your identity.

Losing the Dream of Motherhood

Dr. Maya Shankar opened up to Jay Shetty about her struggles to start a family. After years of setbacks and heartbreaks, she and her husband learned that they were expecting identical twins via a surrogate. But the joy didn't last long, because the surrogate had a miscarriage, which shattered their lifelong dream of becoming parents.

Moving from ecstasy to grief within a few hours was jarring for her nervous system, Dr. Shankar admitted. She told Jay Shetty that her husband tried to lighten the mood by suggesting they name five things they were grateful for. While the proposition initially made her angry, Dr. Shankar realized it was a self-affirmation exercise that allows you to articulate things that bring value to your life and are not threatened by the current change.

Dr. Maya Shankar confessed that this exercise helped her see that there were enough positives left in her life, even in the face of such loss. She told Jay Shetty that, while it didn't make the pain go away, it made her feel more whole, as it reduced denial and allowed her to remind herself that her entire identity was not under threat by the current change.

Grateful for the Result

Jay Shetty shared that he had long believed that being resilient meant finding a way to be grateful for the terrible things that happened. However, his teacher argued that one mustn't be grateful for the hardship itself, but for what one has after the event.

Dr. Shankar agreed, noting that she had a strong aversion to clichés and silver linings. She added that most people she had interviewed for her book were not happy about the trials they had faced, and wouldn't choose to relive the pain of illness or loss. Nevertheless, they are all grateful for the growth they experienced due to those challenges. Similarly, Dr. Maya Shankar admitted that although her dreams were cut short, she is now the happiest, most joyful, and most curious version of herself.

Getting Better at Embracing Change

Dr. Maya Shankar and Jay Shetty explored the idea that change can serve as a personal apocalypse. She explained that the term "apocalypse" originated from a Greek word meaning "revelation". While change disrupts our familiar world, it also uncovers insights about our own beliefs. She admitted that her struggles with infertility forced her to confront the outdated views that a woman's value is primarily linked to her ability to have children.

However, Dr. Shankar warns that we mustn't view our beliefs as sacred, immutable truths, because many of our ideas are learned subconsciously in childhood from caregivers or teachers. Change gives us the opportunity to step back and assess whether a particular point of view is worth revisiting.

Dr. Maya Shankar told Jay Shetty that if you want to get better at dealing with change, you must take strategic steps to embrace it even more. One way of doing so may be to attend improv theatre classes to challenge yourself; being in a constant state of unease strengthens the skills that may otherwise remain dormant in a comfortable life.

In her personal life, Dr. Shankar's strategic discomfort was learning Mandarin to better communicate with her husband's family. She explained to Jay Shetty that dealing with change is one of the most powerful skills humans can develop, and it's important to remember that, while it may be extremely challenging at the moment, you will have gained new skills by going through this experience.

More From Jay Shetty

Listen to the entire On Purpose with Jay Shetty podcast episode “Dr. Maya Shankar: Does Change Make You Feel Lost Or Uncertain? (Use THIS Framework To Find Direction Again and Use Change to Upgrade Your Life!)” now in the iTunes store or on Spotify. For more inspirational stories and messages like this, check out Jay’s website at jayshetty.me.

Disclaimer: This episode reflects Dr. Maya Shankar’s personal experiences and perspectives. It is not medical, psychological, or therapeutic advice. Any references to health, diet, or lifestyle practices are her individual choices and may not be suitable for everyone. Results and experiences vary. Always consult a qualified professional before making changes to your health, wellness, or personal care routines.

¹de Berker AO, Rutledge RB, Mathys C, Marshall L, Cross GF, Dolan RJ, Bestmann S. Computations of uncertainty mediate acute stress responses in humans. Nat Commun. 2016 Mar 29;7:10996. doi: 10.1038/ncomms10996. PMID: 27020312; PMCID: PMC4820542.

²Quoidbach J, Gilbert DT, Wilson TD. The end of history illusion. Science. 2013 Jan 4;339(6115):96-8. doi: 10.1126/science. 1229294. PMID: 23288539.